Season 6, Episode 12 - The End?



  • Daniel_WallaceDaniel_Wallace Member, Moderator
    @Melting_Pot: "I'm over-thinking this, aren't I?"
    - Yes, but that's what we're here for. :-D

    Well, it wouldn't be to bad to "loose" the guild when winning a new web series by and with Felicia at the same time. I think I'd only be drinking myself to sleep for a week or two. ;-)

    But I think there still are a lot of ways the characters could go without repeating anything. Yes, they'd probably have to change in certain ways but that's the way it is.

    For example: Madeline could change around a lot in Vorks life but he would probably continue to be Vork. So, how would it work out if he had to find a job because she convinces him that cashing in the welfare checks is morally wrong? Throwing an extreme character like Vork into different situation like job interviews would probably provide entertainment for a whole season on ten.

    The same question applies for Zaboo. He could stay as an IT guy at game HQ and pursue finding his soul mate, but he has never lived on his own and he doesn't really know how to interact with normal people... and dating is also completely new for him.

    I don't want to throw out ideas for all the characters but I think there still are a lot of stories worth telling.

    But as some of you have already pointed out: The question is, if Felicia feels like going on. "The Guild" with a great series final like this one is way better then going on for several more seasons that progressively become repetitive and bad or boring, but I wouldn't mind another awesome season. ;-)
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  • I'd like to see more of that girl who was filming the protest for her own vlog. (I'm not sure what the character's name was, but I get the impression the actress is famous for something like that in reality, though I've never seen her work before.) Bladezz will probably end up hitting on her, which might be fun to watch. 

    It might be fun to see a Guild-universe series that's not about the Knights of Good themselves, but peripheral characters. Maybe see Wiggly hanging out with friends (though that means we'd have to learn his real name). I'd like to know what Dena's up to... actually, I'd like to see her become a dark badass superhero a la Hit Girl, but that's probably just me. Anyway, I'm sure there are tons of side characters to focus on. 
    Absolutely Pointless
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  • TriencoTrienco Member, Moderator
    @LoneWander Unless I'm completely mistaken, you should find plenty of her here: (or the last table top episode, Alhambra).
  • melting_potmelting_pot Member
    edited January 2013 PM
    yup..that was Dodger allright.

    (she should totally get her own series here..maybe on geeky arts and crafts or somesuch)
  • I love how the final episode ended - made me cry.
    Personally I prefer that a series ends with you wishing there was more than have it continue on and just peter out as creators or viewers lose interest. I think a better avenue would be to make a spin off of The Guild like someone commented earlier, like The Game or something. That way we can follow the lives of the characters we love and maybe take it from a less Cyd-centric perspective and add some new core characters like the staff of The Game and such. That way you can leave The Guild as a beautiful body of work by itself and try something new without the possibility of tarnishing it or feeling trapped by peoples' perceptions of what The Guild should be (ref changing the opening credits sequence as an example) simply because it's no longer technically The Guild.
  • Daniel_WallaceDaniel_Wallace Member, Moderator
    New format... hm... "The Guild - The Movie"?
    If you see any spam, @-mention me in the thread and I will come in to kill it with my hammer. The hammer is not my... you know.

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    twitter: @evildanwallace
  • @Daniel_Wallace you know what might be a cool idea as a Guild-themed movie? I was just thinking this morning that they could do a film from the perspective of the characters in The Game; something long the lines of how the players' RL dramas are seriously messing things up for them and halting their lives and such and it could be animate by the guy that did the new opening credit sequence for The Guild. They could even do a reverse Tron and have the game characters break out into the 'real world' and start messing with the players in revenge or something and be all like 'let's see how you like it, huh? We'll take control of your lives and make you wait around for hours while we decide whether or not we're going to do something in-game or not.'
  • I had the same thought as other people, since in the timeline of the show it's still around 2008 at the latest, it would make sense to jump the story 5 years to now, since Vince Caso was what? 15  when they filmed the first episode, Bladez  should be in college by now, Tink should have graduated, endless possibilities, or maybe a sequeal show with Codex still in it but with a different cast of supporting characters although it wouldn't be the same, I love all the characters in the show as they are.
  • Daniel_WallaceDaniel_Wallace Member, Moderator
    edited January 2013 PM
    I think Felicia will make a spin-off series in which Codex works as a private investigator besides her day job at The Game. She partners up with one of the guildies in every episode to solve cases of vicious crimes in the clubs and bars of LA. Bruiser is in it as her police informer friend, with whom she has an afair, but who get's killed by Fawkes out of jealousy at the end of season 1. She has to solve this murder and discover how her own, terrible, past is linked to Fawkes' at the beginning of season 2.

    It will be called "Nights of The Guild", since the office of "Codex, PI" is above a club called "nights"... and the series plays mostly by night, you know.

    I actually started to write this as a joke but now that I think about it... I would totally watch it. :-D
    If you see any spam, @-mention me in the thread and I will come in to kill it with my hammer. The hammer is not my... you know.

    I try to attack ideas and not people. If I fail, let me know. You may be wrong but I still love you. ;-)

    twitter: @evildanwallace
  • Genius idea @Daniel_Wallace. She could even get Nathan Fillion to quest star as 'Castle' in an episdoe or two providing his 'special' expertise on some particularly tricky case(s).
  • @DANIEL_WALLACE : I'd like to see more of Fawkes in the future, but not in such a dark part. I like the character, and to think of him as a fake bad guy. I liked his kinda, sorta relationship with Codex and that could be a vein to exploit more.

    I do like your idea though, and I think "Nights of the Guild" is a terrific name for a spin-off.

    Yep, Dodger should totally get her own channel here.    She was great in her Guild role, and I think she'd be great in her own series.    
  • I got a little teary eyed at the end of this episode :)
    But it doesn't feel like a series finale for me.
  • During a recent hangout Felicia talks about the future of "The Guild". :)
    "If there is anything more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now" Zaphod Beeblebrox HHGTTG
  • TriencoTrienco Member, Moderator
    I find it interesting that she was getting teary eyed over people merely pointing out what she did (ie. writing a perfect ending, just in case). But I guess that's only fair, considering the many eyes tearing up while watching. What impresses me is that she pulled it off without being overly dramatic or tragic, but with a subtle, simple, personal moment.

    I'd say that some of the "big guys" could definitely learn a few things from her when it comes to writing.
  • torontogaltorontogal Member, Moderator
    edited January 2013 PM
    I love this thread – great thoughts by everyone, as always!  So even though I’ve posted quite a bit of commentary in the actual YouTube comments of the episode, I promised to come back and write out my thoughts in a more detailed manner.  So here goes...

    I think the mark of a truly great show is that at the very start of the story, it pulls you in and gets you invested – and in the very last moment you feel as though you’ve gone on a journey, and it affects you emotionally.

    For me, the very first episode of The Guild and that very last scene in S6 achieve that so beautifully.  A lot of people have already pointed it out, but the very first web-cam in S1 and that very last web-cam in S6 are mirrors of one another, and act as such lovely bookends for an amazing character arc.

    For me, one of the main appeals of The Guild has always been the character of Cyd/Codex – I’m not a particularly huge gamer, so it wasn’t really the MMO subtext that drew my attention to the show.  The thing that really pulled me in was that very first scene in the very first episode where this young woman looks at her webcam, and talks about the challenges she’s facing in her life – from the very first moment, Felicia imbued the character with this hint of sadness, and a palpable vulnerability.  And feeling a sense of empathy and kinship with that character has always been one of my favorite parts of the story.

    Whilst The Guild is a comedy, I’ve always loved shows that mix in a bit of sadness and a bit of pain into the humor and hi-jinx.  It’s those moments of wistfulness that add weight and substance to the moments of comedy.  And it’s something The Guild has always done beautifully.

    When the show starts, Cyd has been rejected by the person who’s supposed to be helping her (her therapist), she’s unemployed, and unwilling to leave the house.  Those who’ve read the comics know that the reason she’s recording the webcams, is because it’s meant as a therapy exercise in her battle against depression.  In essence, she’s in a rather dark place, and she’s told that the Guildies aren’t a true support system.

    I’ve said this elsewhere - but for me the heart and the message of the show is how the Therapist is proven wrong and how the Knights of Good end up as a true support system for one another.  Against all odds, this gang of misfits become this lovingly dysfunctional family - they push one another to try things that they’d never try if they were by themselves. And they grow because of their interactions with one another.  Bit by bit, they mature, or become more worldly, or more brave, or more open, or less dysfunctional.  And Cyd is always the conscience and the heart of the group, that’s always trying to bring them together.

    So that last webcam?  It perfectly captures all of the themes that I love about The Guild.  Cyd’s statement about how healing the Guildies ended up healing her too – and her quiet statement that these people are truly and genuinely her friends – and her tearful admission that their friendship is what she needed all along.  I just love every moment of that scene – I get a lump in my throat just thinking about it.

    It’s such a charming moment of introspection – and a lovely acknowledgement that the lost and slightly damaged young woman that we met at the start, has found some peace, and solace, and happiness in the end.
  • Great analysis, @torontogal

    It is interesting to note though, that the thing that spurs Cyd/Codex into action is an external event - Zaboo showing up on her doorstep. She impusively asks the other Guildies to meet in person so that they can help her solve the Zaboo problem (she has no idea how to do it herself, because simply telling him to leave didn't work), and that is really the thing that starts off their real life friendship that continues on through all six seasons.

    Had Zaboo not turned up on her doorstep at the end of Episode 1, there's a change Cyd would still be shut away inside her house, playing 12 hours of The Game every day and barely managing to keep out of  her depression.
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  • torontogaltorontogal Member, Moderator
    edited January 2013 PM
    @Molokov - thanks!  Very cool reply - you're definitely right that Zaboo showing up on Codex's doorstep was a pivotal moment in the series.  It's indeed the first domino to fall, that triggers a lot of their interaction and growth :)

    There's a charming subtext that I really like about Zaboo's appearance, though.  Whilst he's pursuing Cyd romantically, and whilst he didn't have much idea about personal space, or social cues, there's a piece of the puzzle that I find very poignant.  i.e., when he explains why he sought out Cyd, he says the following - 'Codex... you seemed sad, lately'.

    And I kind of love that - because despite the fact that they were just Guildmates playing a game together, he could still sense that there was a sadness about her, and in his own way, he wanted to support her.  To him, she's not just a fellow on-screen character - she's an actual person that he wants to help.  And in his own Zaboo-esque way, that's what he's trying to do.

    In the first episode, the implication from the Therapist, is that voices-on-a-microphone or avatars-in-a-game wouldn't really care enough about Cyd to actually try and help her, or want to support her.  In the mind of the Therapist, playing the game together is a superficial bond and an imaginary social interaction...

    But what Felicia has always layered so wonderfully into The Guild, is that behind a voice on the mic, or the text on the monitor, or the polygons on the screen, there's an actual other human being - and those people can care for you, and be there for you, and provide you with friendship in a time of need.

    I think it's a message that Felicia holds near-and-dear to her heart - she's noted that since she moved around so much as a kid, her friends were the people she'd talk to online.  And the lovely undercurrent of The Guild, is that when you interact with someone online, that connection doesn't necessarily have to die when you shut off your computer - because friendships can be formed that are potent, genuine, lasting, and real.
  • @torontogal re "it wasn’t really the MMO subtext that drew my attention to the show. The thing that really pulled me in was that very first scene in the very first episode where this young woman looks at her webcam"

    That was the same for me too since I've never played MMOs, I've always been a solo gamer, but watching The Guild has made me super keen to give it a try and hopefully make some cool friends in the process - life hopefully imitating art and all that. I'm kind of being a shy MMO virgin at the mo though and saving myself for ESO since I'm an Elder Scrolls fan.
    But to get back to your point about the webcam thing. I think that's what has made it such a hit for me was the humanity of the characters. Even though I class myself as a geek there are so many geektastic topics and genres to get involved in that it's quite rare to have two geeks that are into all the same thing so I think it would have to be the humanity more than the general geeky goodness that most folk relate to IMHO. But, like the MMO thing, It's been a great way to vicariously experience different realms of geekdome that I've not had a chance to explore like cosplay and steampunk RPGs, not to mention getting to see (at least to some extent) what it's like to be a game creator and the dramas they go though in trying to bring the games we love to life and released.
  • torontogaltorontogal Member, Moderator
    edited March 2013 PM
    @StealthDovah - as you said so eloquently, The Guild also helped introduce me to areas of geekery that I didn't have much knowledge about until watching the show (e.g., SteamPunk, as you mentioned up above).  As you rightfully said, there's so much variety in terms of geeky interests, and the show touches upon a lot of them as it progresses.

    I very much agree that despite the fact that The Guild handles geekdom in such a refreshingly charming, loving, and enthusiastic way, that it's the humanity of the characters, and the bond between them that adds an emotional honesty that draws people in :)

    I've said this before, but to me, to truly understand the layered nature of the The Guild, I always recommend that people have a listen to Felicia's podcast with Riki Lindhome, on the Making It Podcast.

    It's such an honest discussion about what it's like in Hollywood, and how that environment weighed on her, caused her grief, but ultimately helped push her to create something she's so very proud of and fulfilled by.

    Which again loops me back to why I adore that very first webcam and that very last webcam.  In the very first webcam, Cyd/Codex is this young women who feels somewhat lost, and sad, and unfulfilled, and uses gaming to fill that void in her life.  I think Felicia imbues those scenes with such emotional honesty, because she was brave enough and open enough to take aspects of her real-world life experience, and thoughtfully layered those into the show...

    She always reinforces the mantra of 'write what you know' - and as the Riki Lindhome interview illuminates, Felicia genuinely knows what it's like to feel somewhat sad, and adrift, and unfulfilled.  So when she needs to express those layers via her portrayal of Codex, she does so with such a potent, textured authenticity.

    I'd say the same about the very last Webcam - in that scene, Codex has managed to 'heal' herself due to her commitment to her friends.  She's found a support system, and has gained something fulfilling, and has fought off some of the emptiness and sadness she was feeling at the onset of the show.  It's another lovely moment where I think the tears of gratitude in Codex's eyes are just as relevant and just as emotionally honest if they were to be applied to Felicia's own journey...

    Before Felicia created the show, she felt as though she was a 'square peg' trying to fit into the Hollywood system - but through the hard-work that she poured into the creation of The Guild, she found creative fulfillment, and a home for her passion, and a set of lifelong friends.  And for me, that gives that final Webcam such a depth of emotional potency - because it's a lovely, well-earned moment for Codex - but I think it's also a layered expression of how much the show has meant to Felicia herself.

    That's something I'll always adore about The Guild - the fact that it's infused with so much personal meaning.  It's a passion-project in the truest sense :)
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